It was in the mid-2000s that Prasoon Joshi erupted on the scene with rousing, emotionally-stirring lyrics of Hindi songs such as āKhoon Chalaā from Rang De Basanti and āMaā from Taare Zameen Par, soon becoming the go-to lyricist for top Bollywood filmmakers.
Although heād started his career much earlier, with Raj Kumar Santoshiās Lajja one of his earliest works, Joshi, whoās now the CEO of American ad agency McCann India, broke through with big budget romantic fare such as Fanaa, Hum Tum and Delhi 6. In August 2017, he was appointed the chairperson of the Central Board of Film Certification, a position heās held since then.
However, itās Joshiās proximity with the current political dispensation that now gets more attention than his lyrics. From penning lyrics for government campaigns to conducting interviews with the Prime Minister that make some of our most pliable news anchors appear tough, Joshi remains, primarily, an adman. Whether itās Cola or Hindutva, Joshiās talent as a writer can sell anything. So it isnāt surprising that heās developed a comfortable relationship with the BJP, a party that sharply exploits the soft power of pop culture to strengthen its ideological cannon.
In this interview conducted in Goa, Joshi spoke about censorship, his proximity to the BJP and his idea of India.
Since you took over as CBFC chairperson, your songs have been missed. Is the work consuming you too much?
Oh, yes. But I recently did a song for Swachh Bharat, another one Iām doing for a water campaign, then thereās something coming up with A.R. Rahman. Iām in a different phase in life. This time, my work has a lot more social significance. But if you ask me about my film songs, yes, that has reduced. Iād easily do 1-2 films a year but thatāll come back. Iāve changed track but I havenāt stopped writing. Iām still doing a lot of poetry. My next book should be out soon.
Your tenure as CBFC chairperson has been largely free from controversy as compared to Pahlaj Nihalaniās.
Other than the Ford V Ferrari issue recently. There wasnāt even a discussion about blurring the alcohol bottles. It was proactively done by the makers. We didnāt ask them.
But the CBFC has created an environment where producers preemptively do these things.
Those are two different issues. There are a lot of people who work hard here. This is an organisation which works under the law. One needs to respect it. Iām never not open to dialogue. We, as a society, are a work in progress as new technologies come into play. The tools we invent will need new methods too.
There is a constant fear that the claws of censorship will reach the Internet, which has so far been a free space.
But weāre having a dialogue about it right now. In a democracy, such things can only be resolved through dialogue. Today, parents have been conscious about at what age they should introduce tech to their kids. So what do you do? Do you ration it to them? Do you use parental controls? So as we grow, discussions will happen and weāll device new ways to figure this out.
Over the past few years, youāve carved a very political imageāone thatās very friendly to the current government. As an artist, how do you feel about this intimate relationship between art and politics?
Politics is a very big part of society, as is art. If you say you are insular, it cannot be possible. Itāll reflect in art. As far as I go, I look at the positive things. For example, CBFC. I only look at how we can make the functioning of the organisation better. I extend my services to contribute to it as well as other things, like Swacch Bharat. Rather than critiquing it, I choose to write an anthem for it, which plays in every kuda-gaadi now. I like people to be motivated and join hands for the good of the country. Anything that works for the country works for me.
So then the things that donāt should also make you angry. Shouldnāt art also question the establishment? Your lines from Rang De Basanti come to mindā¦ which was a staunchly anti-establishment film. Itās great that you support a Swacch Bharat. My question is: doesnāt that make you blind towards the faults of the same government?
I donāt know. At this point, I want toā¦ In Taare Zameen Par, we had an example of the Solomon Islands. They donāt cut a tree there. They abuse it. They criticise the tree. And gradually the tree falls and dies. I think some of us have been doing the same with India. Always trying to find faults. Always saying āwe canāt do it.ā Yes, criticism is required. But it shouldnāt be such that it paralyses you. We need constructive criticism.
Well, I think the space for criticism is shrinkingā¦
No, I donāt believe that. I think thatās too much of a preconceived notion.
Well, you were part of the group that wrote a counter-letter to PM Modi saying that rise in lynchings are part of a āfalse narrative.ā I mean, these are events backed by dataā¦
Again, I am coming to you and saying that as much as itās important to criticise whatās not right, donāt you think there should be voices that should appreciate whatās right? Donāt you want to increase the confidence and self-belief of the country? If I keep criticizing you all the time, talk about your physical appearance, about things you donāt know, donāt you think the self-confidence of a nation will decline? This country has seen a lot, weāve a long way to go. I think we need to improve the hausla of this country. Letās try and do this one time? Right now, I am in a phase where I want to tell my country all thatās good with us. I want to focus on it. Why canāt we do that?
I think the BJP has a significant advertising budget which is spent only on that, no? What we donāt have are actual policies when it comes to the rising lynchings, the murder of journalists, lawyers and intellectuals.
Every voice is important. Some people will focus on those things. And you need people who will focus on good things. Iāve chosen to focus on the good in the country and thatās reflected in all the work that I do now. Thatās what Iāve chosen.
Even when it comes to remaining silent on serious social injustices?
There are many people whoāre doing it, no? Saahir saab, who was a romantic poet, wrote, āTum parcham failana saathi, main parvat pe gaoonga.ā You go with the parcham, thatās not my job. I still have to sing at the parvat. Now, somebody chooses one thing, somebody chooses another. I think weāve spoken enough about this now.
If one were to ask you whether being in the good books of the BJP was a strategic decision on your part, what would your argument be against that?
Have you seen me do anything behind the scenes? If I like you, I will openly support you. At least I am transparent. I told you why Iām doing what Iām doing: I want to consciously focus on the things where I can contribute. As I said, India needs encouragement. This is a tipping point and our self-belief needs to be up. If we lose it, itāll take us years to recover, the way it did after independence. We have it. We can do it together.
Thatās a very pure thought. But it doesnāt feel that this government speaks the language of unity. It thrives on being divisive.
But this is what my approach is. You are a journalist so you obviously look at things more critically and then analyse it. Iāve written all kinds of cinema. When I wrote Main Rahoon Ya Na Rahoon, Bharat Rehna Chahiye (a song for the BJP), I actually felt that. I believe in the universal truth, in the concept of one. I am a spiritual person. To me, thereās no āother.ā Itās like what Kabir said, āPrem Gali Ati Sankari, Tomein Do Na Samahiā (The lane of love is too narrow to hold two at a time).
Now, for whatever itās worth, we live in structures and geographically-divided places we call countries. Thatās how itās been. Now, we need to show some beliefs in those structures. We need to empower them for them to be able to work for your own benefit. If we keep dragging them down, then how will this concept work? Or you change the world. I think AI is going to change the world. Itās going to link everything together. Itāll be one consciousness. Iāll be able to read your thoughts. Weāre going to enter a new world. There canāt be boundaries and human beings will be able to access each otherās emotions and thoughts. Itāll be a different world but today it isnāt. There are geographical boundaries and if you feel dedicated towards this set of peopleā¦. And not collectively feel good about it, it will collapse!
But we canāt be so inward-thinking and insular.
Of course not, weāve to be open but these structures are man-made, arenāt they.
And hence their flaws must be acknowledged.
But only if it contributed to our benefit and not if it breaks us down. So letās just show some faith in them. Iām not undermining the power of criticism. The only word I will add is: constructive criticism. I will not criticise you to destroy you, I will criticise to make you better. Donāt you agree?
I do. I love this country, I just donāt recognise it anymore. It doesnāt feel like the place I grew up in. Where one is constantly reminded of their religionā¦
If someone criticises me for the way Iāve written something, Iād try and write it better. It leaves me with hope.
But thatās exactly why the letter on lynchings was writtenā¦
It was one-sided and accusatory...very selective.
No, it was a cry for help.
If you write five bad things about this festival along with five good things, then itās fair. But if you focus only on the bad, then itās biased. Iāll tell you what I tell my friends, in a fair world, you need to focus on both. Where are the good things?
Well, the Swacch Bharat etc that you mentioned, I acknowledge that fully. I think theyāre great. Now, will you acknowledge the bad? The communal violence, minorities living in fear?
Now, you are just jumping to conclusions. We are a work in progress. Wait and watch. I have great faith in this country and the consciousness of this country. Just by selecting a few things donāt come to conclusions.
And what if it actually becomes a Hindu Rashtra as many fear? Youād obviously not endorse it, would you?
I believe in inclusivity. I love this country. I believe in the diversity of this country, itās very important for me. In my speech I said, why are only Bombay-bred people making films? They have a certain way of looking at life but we need people from all sorts of diverse backgrounds to come and make films.